Interview with KTM’s Stefan Pierer – Half 3

Alan Cathcart’s dialog with Stefan Pierer continues, because the PIERER Mobility president and chief government officer discusses electrification and different future applied sciences. —ED.

Interview with KTM’s Stefan Pierer – Half 1
Interview with KTM’s Stefan Pierer – Half 2

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Alan Cathcart: Taking a look at PIERER Mobility’s electrical mannequin growth, GASGAS already has its personal electrical Trials bike, however to what extent will different manufacturers throughout the PIERER household go electrical as nicely? So will KTM ever have a mainstream electrical mannequin, like a scooter?

Stefan Pierer: Properly, we’ve got already an electrical mannequin, the Freeride, plus all the children’ bikes. You already know KTM’s chosen subject for product growth. If you happen to cease in entrance of a restaurant or beer backyard, driving an E-bike, you are taking off your helmet and all people is trying to you, and also you’re proud to be driving a silent electrical motorbike – but when it’s a scooter, it’s completely different. Very completely different! In order that’s the explanation we don’t have any KTM E-scooters. That’s Piaggio’s job, not mine – they make them very properly, huge respect.

AC: However CFMOTO has an E-scooter.

SP: Sure, they launched it at EICMA final yr – we already processed it to fulfil European rules, so if it really works, we’ll take it into distribution. They name it the ZEEHO, although my recommendation was they need to model it as a CFMOTO product, mannequin ZEEHO, which might assist with advertising and marketing. Speaking and saying is one factor, however constantly delivering and getting market share – that’s one other. Let’s see what occurs!

Look, regarding electrical powered two-wheelers I’m telling all people the identical factor. As a result of fairly often I get requested in buyers conferences, “What about your bikes geared up with electrical powertrains?” after which we get speaking about power density, which with a combustion engine is 0.8 kilograms per litre. If you wish to get the identical power density with a lithium-ion battery pack, you’re including as much as ten instances the dimensions – ten instances. I’ve been driving an Enduro bike with 9 or 10 litres of gasoline, the place ought to I put within the 100 kilos to get the electrical equal – perhaps in my rucksack or on the bags rack?? Don’t speak about an Journey bike with pretensions for masking huge distances on or off-road. That is silly. Beginning 15 years in the past I’ve seen excessive voltage E-companies every stoop right into a monetary disaster – Vectrix wound up 120 million Euro in debt, Zero in the event you look carefully, it’s burning cash, and so forth. Harley LiveWire? Fully unprofitable! All the brand new electrical start-ups burn cash – they’re fully non-viable commercially. However as quickly because it’s a small battery, that’s completely different. We’re promoting child’s Motocross electrical bikes very properly – with a small battery, you retain your margin. Then in seven years’ time when the teenager turns 16, he’s already used to electrical, so then he’s asking for a much bigger model of that, which implies you have to prepare to produce him with what he needs. Easy!

AC: So are you prepared for electrical off-road, or electrical MX or electrical Trials?

SP: We’re the pioneer in that, and in 2013 we launched our Freeride and the next-generation mannequin will are available 2024, so it’s clear we’re transferring forward on that. In international locations like Austria, in vacationer areas the place it’s forbidden to experience combustion engines, it’s the one alternative you will have, and you place the cash on the desk since you need to do your sport. Or, in the event you have a look at Paris, we’re not allowed anymore to experience with a combustion engine, so that you’ll want an electrical scooter or one thing like that to experience by way of the streets.

AC: So do you imagine this may develop all the best way round Europe and the remainder of the world?

SP: Sure, but it surely’s not what I might name an aggressive enterprise case, it’s simply as quickly because it’s legally pressured, you need to present one thing, and child’s merchandise are excellent, simply excellent. Look, you aren’t anymore the mechanic in your child. Secondly, it’s safer as a result of you are able to do it in your neighbourhood, even in your backyard with out disturbing your neighbour. And don’t underrate the true choice maker who’s the mom, and if the product is silent, she perceives it as secure, as it’s.

AC: However taking a look at grownup electrical sport, is Trials the obvious self-discipline which ought to turn out to be electrical?

SP: Sure, it’s already within the course of, that’s clear, Trial is ideal, we don’t want a giant battery, particularly the torque is useful to make you bounce, no matter, however that’s clear. And likewise a section which we stepped in three years in the past, it’s clear that electrical bicycles, principally the E-bike enterprise turned an enormous enterprise, a giant market, although to be strictly truthful, it’s a Hybrid, since you’re pedalling in addition to having your electrical motor and the battery pack!

AC: Are you continue to manufacturing your E-bikes in Bulgaria?

SP: Sure, and yearly extra, as a result of I’ve a strategic mission, which is to deliver all bicycles presently manufactured in Asia again to Europe! It’s a silly enterprise case, as a result of all the pieces is finished over there at current. As a producer you need to order one and a half years upfront, you need to safe all of your ordering, hopefully you will have specified it in the best amount and to the best specification, after which you have to look forward to one yr to promote it by way of your channels. You find yourself tying up working capital for six months, which is essentially the most idiotic enterprise case I’ve ever seen. And your buyer is in Europe, so you need to ship all of it the best way right here from Asia – it’s completely silly. We all know the way it all works from our motorbike enterprise, so we’ve got arrange a strategic alliance with Maxcom in Bulgaria, and now we’re constructing a further manufacturing unit there, we’ve got introduced again body manufacturing as a result of the body is the primary element you want – you need to have one thing to place all the pieces in, and for suspension, you’ll be able to think about the way it works with WP. It’ll take three or 4 years, however belief me, we’ll deliver electrical bicycle manufacture again to Europe.

AC: Solely in Bulgaria, or in different international locations, too?

SP: In Bulgaria wages are essentially the most enticing in Europe, as a result of even within the Czech Republic and Hungary there’s almost full employment. So if in Austria you will have 100% of staff in jobs, then within the Czech Republic and Hungary it’s 80-85%, however in Bulgaria it’s nonetheless simply 60%.

AC: To the purpose that you just may contemplate buying Maxcom?

SP: No, I’m used to working alliances – as quickly as you need to personal it 100%, you need to run it, after which you need to go to Bulgaria. I choose to remain right here in Austria!

AC: What’s the potential annual manufacturing quantity of the brand new manufacturing unit? What number of are you able to construct every year, and can they be branded as Husqvarna, or R Raymon, or KTM?

SP: At the moment we are able to do 350,000 bikes a yr, and with the brand new manufacturing unit it’s rising as rapidly as doable to half 1,000,000, 500,000 items. We now have stopped utilizing the R Raymon title, and changed it with GASGAS. Husqvarna is perceived globally as a pleasant, secure client model, with completely different merchandise like chainsaws, garden mowers, stitching machines and all that, and now electrical bicycles. Curiously, within the bicycle trade it’s not like within the motorbike market, persons are not model pushed, so a median 70% of shoppers that are available to the shop don’t have any clue which model they need to purchase. They’ve only one thought – they need a mountain bike, a metropolis bike, no matter – however then the gross sales man is steering the shopper to that model the place he’s getting his fee. It jogs my memory of 30 years in the past within the motorbike distribution community, and it’ll develop in an identical method, that the seller is offering the product traces of 1 OEM, or most two. And for that you have to have a program to permit him to earn cash, and to do this you have to turn out to be a worldwide participant. Meaning for us, in the long run we’ve got to do 1,000,000 gross sales yearly, and as fast as we are able to, 500,000 items. And we do have a bonus in comparison with the bicycle OEMs, as a result of we’ve got our personal gross sales community on the motorcycling aspect with 4,500 sellers, and the electrical bicycle is a powered two-wheeler! You’ve gotten a powertrain, you will have a battery pack, you will have a shifting system and a guaranty which you have to present, so all the pieces {that a} motorbike seller is ideally positioned to serve.

AC: OK, however for a bike seller to promote electrical, doesn’t he must make a major further funding to satisfy security necessities?

SP: No, not true – it’s a 48-volt product, so it’s easy. That’s what we’ve got learnt with our E-products, we launched a excessive voltage 320-volt idea with the Freeride, after which there have been big restrictions on manufacturing, as a result of it’s at all times dangerous for security. Each logistically and on the seller degree all of us needed to make investments various capital. However 48 volts like within the bicycle trade you may also use on a bike or a scooter as much as 11kW. As quickly as you step upwards past that, you’re heading in direction of excessive voltage, after which you will have restrictions on manufacturing, logistics and seller. So 11kW is the ceiling we’ll go to.

AC: To your off-road electrical fashions, will you make it straightforward to change batteries?

SP: No, it’s too sophisticated and costly – it’s simply rising your manufacturing prices.

AC: What’s PIERER Mobility’s general coverage for zero emission methods? Are you curious about creating artificial gas?

SP: Sure, for positive – we closely help that, we’ve got arrange alliances or lobbying teams for artificial gas with many various European corporations. In Austria as nicely, we’re one of many main contributors, and in Saudi Arabia and the Emirates, they’re beginning to make the mandatory big funding in tools for producing artificial gas on a commercially viable industrial foundation.

AC: Is it a future technique for PIERER Mobility that electrical merchandise can be confined to city mobility?

SP: Sure, however perhaps as much as the equal of 125cc, so you may also use it within the countryside. For positive, mopeds sometimes might be changed by electrical, however what’s the tank of a moped, six or seven litres, and this delivers a mileage which is sort of OK. However the battery pack presently wanted for such a mileage with the electrical equal is just too huge, as a result of as a younger man, what are you doing on a weekend? Go for a experience, however in the event you get misplaced by no means once more will you step on an electrical! These are simply easy issues the shopper is deciding, not the politicians.

AC: Properly, perhaps there are politicians who’re attempting to insist to the shopper that they know finest, however artificial gas provides the shopper the possibility to say no.

SP: Sure, that’s proper – and now they’re lastly recognizing that we’ve got 1.6 billion combustion autos across the globe, so how ought to we cope with these? Fortuitously, only recently when Brussels was attempting to introduce a ban from 2035 onwards for all new combustion engines, the German and Italian ministers achieved an exemption for artificial fuel-equipped autos.

AC: BMW Motorrad is extraordinarily targeted on artificial gas – are you too?

SP: Sure, the entire trade, as a result of we’re all contributors, the Japanese, the Indians, all of us.

AC: Sure, however significantly you and BMW – are you working collectively on this?

SP: Sure, as a result of for a median buyer of a sportbike or leisure bike in developed markets like Europe, what’s their common mileage a yr – 3,000km, most. So, with that, the worth of the gas doesn’t make any influence. So regardless of artificial gas being dearer, not less than to begin with, if you wish to pursue your pastime with out being stranded in the course of nowhere since you ran out of cost, that is the right resolution. Such prospects won’t ever purchase electrical.

AC: How about hydrogen? The 4 Japanese corporations are pursuing a three way partnership on this, so are you taking a look at that, too?

SP: No. Because the politicians have lastly acknowledged electrical shouldn’t be the true resolution, now all people is speaking about hydrogen, however they don’t have any clue how this could work. It’s costly, and in addition the logistics usually are not straightforward. Even in case you have liquid hydrogen, you’ll be able to’t use current pipelines to deliver it to the present level of sale. Hydrogen is the smallest and lightest molecule within the Universe, so it leaks simply and to forestall its launch requires expensive options. For positive, for trade, for metal makers and suchlike for my part hydrogen is the one method ahead, and it is also a great resolution for giant vans, buses and so forth – however the infrastructure is sophisticated, and costly. Though there exists already a supply system, which simply occurs to promote gasoline and diesel in the mean time, you’re not in a position to make use of this instantly to distribute hydrogen, you need to adapt it. And that’s the benefit of artificial gas, you’ll be able to distribute it straight away, so for masking any important distance artificial gas will likely be key. It’s a scientific gasoline, and you’ll fill your current motorbike with it, and it really works simply effective. Look, in MotoGP we’re getting in 2024 to a mix of 40% artificial with typical race gas, and in 2026 or 2027 it ought to go to 100%, like in Components 1. Collectively, we are going to save the planet – and have enjoyable racing!

AC: In order that brings us to MotoGP, the place you will have a brand new KTM rider this yr in Jack Miller, and a GASGAS group in addition to a KTM group. Is it true that your largest downside in the mean time in being aggressive is qualifying? Come race day, Brad Binder is definitely a Sunday man, and Jack, too, so is that this the issue?

SP: Mainly, it’s much like Components 1 in that you have to have a qualifying bike and a qualifying arrange, then a race bike. For 2023 we predict we’re aggressive, however let’s see. Final yr we underestimated the significance of aerodynamics, which turned a key component in being aggressive, but it surely’s simply rising the prices. Fortuitously we’ve got a detailed relationship to Purple Bull, so that they helped us, and we managed to cease the introduction of that silly thought of the movable experience top in races. I generally get the impression that the Italian producers need to use MotoGP solely as a method of creating these loopy concepts that they’ve mendacity in mattress at night time into one thing that might perhaps work on a bike. Gigi Dall’Igna is a superb man, he’s at all times discovering new concepts, and what’s not lined by the principles, oh, that’s racing – so it’s OK. I’m not complaining about his capability for innovation, solely concerning the consistently rising prices they create with them. As a result of, mark my phrases, ultimately most likely from 2027 onwards, for positive we must introduce price controls. Look, Suzuki decided to retire from MotoGP on price grounds with a race-winning bike, so don’t underrate the significance of this.

AC: Do you’re feeling the explanation they withdrew was that they merely weren’t ready to spend the additional cash wanted for aerodynamics?

SP: Sure – but it surely’s not solely aerodynamics, it’s all the pieces. Let me inform you, you want not less than a 70 million Euro finances for 2 bikes for a single season, in any other case you’re not aggressive. And for Suzuki, not going racing was a strategic advertising and marketing choice based mostly on worth for the cash they spent, which is sort of comprehensible.

AC: Given the concentrate on different fuels, what’s your long-term projection for KTM’s two-stroke fashions?

SP: After I began in KTM 30 years in the past again in 1992, I needed to take the choice whether or not or to not produce a brand new 125cc two-stroke engine platform. However at the moment we didn’t actually have the liquidity to help it, so we had been pondering very severely, ought to we do it or not? So many feedback had been made that the two-stroke is useless, however lastly I stated – that’s the one new engine platform that we are able to afford to do, as a result of a two-stroke motor is less expensive to develop than a four-stroke, so let’s do it. And 30 years later it’s nonetheless alive in a amount which I shouldn’t title, however in the event you twist my arm we’re speaking about 50,000 bikes a yr! Honda tried to cease everybody making such bikes, however now Yamaha has come again with them, too. We satisfied them! I keep in mind in 2000 the Japanese instructed me in Tokyo, “We stopped with the two-stroke, all the pieces is heading in direction of four-stroke.” OK, however due to that racing received way more costly, with actually excessive finish know-how, as a result of a four-stroke prime finish is nearly rocket science – 15,000 rpm, titanium valves, all these sorts of issues. However we are going to proceed to make the two-stroke at KTM as a result of the shopper needs it, and with direct gas injection we are able to even obtain street-legal homologation.

AC: If now you can acquire Euro 5 compliance with a fuel-injected two stroke, will you make a highway bike powered by such a motor?

SP: No highway bike – sorry, I do know it could be standard, however we received’t do it. I’m preventing sufficient wars with the bureaucrats already! Off-road solely with on-road compliance the place crucial for Enduro fashions is the place we draw the road.

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